26 Comments

1. Having just seen this come up on twitter after watching the news my first thought in response to the line "The year was 2081, and everybody was finally equal." was simply "but we're all equal now - equally fucked that is"...

   Iirc there was a film based on Vonnegut's story wasn't there?

   Anyway, great post as ever and thanks for taking the time to shed some light into issues that I otherwise wouldn't have been aware of.

   Comment by the_leander — January 10, 2011 @ 6:37 pm

2. What a terrible thing to achieve. I'm an Orwell fan but have never read Vonnegut. This is intriguing.

   It is so funny that feminists often forget Elanor Roosevelt's words of wisdom about feeling inferior. I personally think the most feminist act a woman can accomplish is to feel perfectly happy with herself DESPITE everything else around her.

   XX

   Comment by Amanda — January 10, 2011 @ 6:37 pm

3. Great site. I love your strong views! Glad I found you.
   All the best!
   Dyna :)

   Comment by Asian Dyna — January 10, 2011 @ 7:25 pm

4. Always loved HB and Vonnegut, Bluebeard's my favorite.

   Comment by Mike Caprio — January 10, 2011 @ 7:38 pm

5. I've always liked Vonnegut -- even his more 'serious' stuff like Slaughterhouse 5 is... different. My favorite short(ish) story, though, is "Repent Harlequin, Said the Ticktockman", which does

   Equality has to be equality of opportunities and rights and dignity. Because in all other respects we aren't equal, and this is exactly part of what is beautiful about us. Variety and equality, these two Important Things From The Left, have always danced a contradictory dance in many a person's mind.

   They think being better makes others feel bad, and this is confused with dignity. They feel insecure. Then they point out the crazy things some people to do be better -- studying till you drop, workaholism, anorexia to 'look like a model' -- and think, this ain't no good! And thereby confuse two problems that should be kept apart.

   Differences are good, too. Equality means nobody should be persecuted for being different, not that everybody should be the same. Vive les différences!

   Comment by Asehpe — January 10, 2011 @ 7:44 pm

6. Sorry about the hanging "which does"!... it shouldn't be there.

   Comment by Asehpe — January 10, 2011 @ 7:51 pm

7. Delurking to tell you that HB is my favorite Vonnegut story, and one which, I believe, needs to be told more often.

   Equality means nobody should be persecuted for being different, not that everybody should be the same.

   A point that too many people seem to forget.

   Comment by Tom Allen — January 10, 2011 @ 8:37 pm

8. I take a slightly different stance. I tend to think that a lot of the anti-porn/anti-sexworker feminism is rooted in:

   "Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy." - H.L.Menken

   Comment by Martin — January 10, 2011 @ 9:35 pm

9. Ah, I love that story! I've only read it once but it stuck in my mind as few do. Another, more symbolic treatment of the theme appears in Rush's song "The Trees" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWHEcIbhDiw).

   Asehpe, "Repent, Harlequin" is a Harlan Ellison story, not Vonnegut. ;-)

   Comment by Maggie McNeill — January 11, 2011 @ 8:00 am

10. That is such a great story! I'm all for equality in all respects, that is - equal opportunity to fulfill your potential whatever it is. Vonnegut's story actually formed my view of what equality really should mean, the story being the perfect anti-image, when I was around 15 or 16 and read it in a Swedish science fiction magazine. I've referred to it over and over since then. Thanks for the link to the story!

    Oh, and by the way. I found your blog by way of Blaghag a while ago. Will hang around...

    Comment by Olle — January 11, 2011 @ 8:21 am

11. To the first commenter, there was a movie, and it was horrible. I'm not going to even look up and link it, it was that bad. It probably turned people away from the book, which is shameful.

    Comment by NoxiousNan — January 11, 2011 @ 11:57 am

12. Ooops -- indeed you're right, Maggie! I had the two confused. Thanks!

    Comment by Asehpe — January 11, 2011 @ 12:05 pm

13. I read the story. I found it generally entertaining, but I didn't find it deep or anything. Nowadays, I find it the kind of thing that people project onto equal rights advocates, rather than anything close to anything we could possibly be heading towards.

    Brave New World still strikes me as an illustration of an exagurated potential dystopia, as does A Handmade's Tale. Harrison Bergeron just strikes me as someone attacking a strawman of liberals.

    Comment by WingedBeast — January 11, 2011 @ 3:20 pm

14. Harrison Bergeron is purposefully exaggerated, WingedBeast, as is so much of Vonnegut's work (I mean, do you think Player Piano "really" describes a possible case of class conflict, rather than an exaggeration based on present tendencies)?

    The 'real point' of Vonnegut's tale is that one often forgets that equality doesn't mean that we have to be all equal; that if in fact we were all equal the world would be at best boring, at worst oppresive. Men and women don't have to be 'the same', or Americans and non-Americans, or Blacks and Whites, or Christians and Buddhists and atheists, and so on. (I find interesting the curious inherent contradiction between these two tenets of progressives, Variety and Equality, if taken to their ultimate logical conclusions.)

    Comment by Asehpe — January 11, 2011 @ 4:18 pm

15. @Maggie -- I LOVE "The Trees"! Okay, it's not like I dislike anything Rush has done, but still, "The Trees" is a great song.

    XX

    Comment by Amanda — January 11, 2011 @ 6:22 pm

16. the_leander: I never saw the movie, it looked like a lousy interpretation.

    Amanda: Yup, I love that quote. "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." That sums up how I feel about people spending countless hours hashing out why it's so evil and awful that supermodels, porn stars, and actors are attractive. (Might as well be complaining that doctors are too good at medicine and chefs are too good at cooking.)

    Asehpe: Ditto on "Equality has to be equality of opportunities." This is why I am anti-affirmative action, but all in favor of better funding for schools in poor and disenfranchised areas.

    Martin: Agreed as well. That quote also reminds me of something someone said of Che Guevara, mostly about his work to try and organize in Angola. Paraphrase: "He couldn't stand that somewhere, there might be an argument that he wasn't a part of."

    Olle: It's such a perfect story to read when you're young and forming. I doubt it's covered in most schools, though. In my district, it was only in the required reading compendium for the "gifted" 7th graders.

    Comment by Furry Girl — January 11, 2011 @ 7:33 pm

17. FurryGirl: (Might as well be complaining that doctors are too good at medicine and chefs are too good at cooking.)

    I agree, of course. But I wonder what you think of the often-cited argument that "the media" or "society" or "our current culture" are imposing an impossible body image on normal people, especially women, that so many girls become anorexic because of thin-to-death fashion models, because "the media" subtly push the idea that you can only be beautiful (and therefore loved) if you conform to the standards, etc.?

    Comment by Asehpe — January 11, 2011 @ 10:47 pm

18. The old Liberal Party here in Britain wrote into its constitution that one of the three most important objectives of the party was a society where "people are not enslaved by conformity".

    I've always liked that phrase.

    Comment by Richard Gadsden — January 12, 2011 @ 1:19 am

19. You will appreciate the photo of equal underwear featured in a thing i wrote about gender equality: http://www.lauraagustin.com/violence-against-women-too-much-of-a-bad-thing

    by now i am deeply suspicious of the concept of equality in itself.

    best, laura

    Comment by Laura Agustín — January 12, 2011 @ 5:32 am

20. Asehpe, I agree that it's purposely exagurated. But, it's an exageration of something that doesn't exist, a decry that the best achievers should be forced to stop achieving.

    Comment by WingedBeast — January 12, 2011 @ 6:14 pm

21. @Asehpe: "Repent, Harlequin" is one of the few Ellison stories I actually like.

    @Amanda: "The Trees" is one of the songs which first drew me to Rush.

    @Laura: Like you, I am suspicious of the concept of equality; the scientific part of my mind defines two things which are equal as being the same, and I have no desire to be forced to be the same as a man, nor to see men feminized. Carried to its logical conclusion, the very idea produces a dystopian nightmare. Equality of opportunity is freedom; equality of results is the worst tyranny imaginable. :-(

    Comment by Maggie McNeill — January 13, 2011 @ 1:57 pm

22. One thing I find interesting and/or regrettable about American politics is the confusion around the words 'liberal' and 'socialist', a good deal of which probably stems from residual 'Red Scare' thinking.

    To be clear, as modern liberalism is defined in political science texts, at least outside of the US, equality of opportunity is the equality sought. Equality of outcome is the realm of socialism and social democracy.

    While both ideologies exist on the 'left' of the uni-dimensional political spectrum (as does communism), there's quite a number of differences.

    To be blunt, FurryGirl, you have a much better claim to liberalism than does modern radical feminism, or the Affirmative Action crowd.

    And now for the non lecturey part of this comment:

    There's a movie version staring Samwise Gamgee
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron_(film)

    Comment by Gnome Garten — January 18, 2011 @ 3:07 am

23. Asehpe: There are cultural beauty standards, but they apply equally to men and women, so it's not this special vagina-seeking missile of oppression that only women experience. "Don't be fat, don't be bald, don't be short, don't not have muscles" is no different from "Don't be fat, don't have small boobs, don't be muscular or tall."

    Richard: Yes, good phrase.

    Laura: Yes, an apt (and amusing) comparison with the Mormon garments. PS: I'm flattered that you read my blog. I wish that as many sex-positive people read Sex At The Margins as read whatever is this year's "how to masturbate more feminist-ly" book.

    Gnome: I might be a liberal in the more classic sense, but today, the word means "a spineless whiner who supports nanny state laws."

    Comment by Furry Girl — January 18, 2011 @ 4:59 pm

24. Furry Girl, in most of the rest of the world that would be called socialism. It's another example of how the American Left has allowed themselves to be defined by the American Right. Neither side has a monopoly on the Nanny State or lack thereof. There's more than one dimension in politics.

    But I suppose it's all dancing on the head of a pin. You're an interesting read regardless of what you call yourself. Cheers.

    Comment by Gnome Garten — January 19, 2011 @ 6:11 am

25. I read this story a long time ago, way before I knew who Vonnegut was or read his stuff, and had absolutely no idea who wrote it. Thank you for that.

    Comment by Fuller — February 6, 2011 @ 5:23 pm

26. • Tweets that mention Feminisnt » "The year was 2081, and everybody was finally equal": a dystopian solution to insecurities -- Topsy.com

    Comment by Trackbacks — May 26, 2013 @ 9:21 am

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