5 Comments

1. Hate to complain when you're saying such nice things about men, but the more dangerous jobs men do are not, in general, the ones they get paid more for doing. Nor, obviously, are nursing and education less well paid than male dominated fields because of their lower education requirements. Sexism remains a large contributor to the wage gap.

   Comment by Protagoras — November 21, 2011 @ 6:05 pm

2. It's an interesting one. There's also a lot of research showing even in jobs where women and men are at the same educational level, experience level, and pay scale, men are more adept at (and therefore get) better pay rises - women don't ask. Linda Babcock's work addresses this phenomenon in detail.

   There's a problem of the numbers not comparing like-for-like, as you point out. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics found in the early 1980s that companies paid men and women equal money when their titles and responsibilities are equal - for example, both regional buyers for a chain of stores, not one local buyer compared against a regional one. US figures also show that during the 1950s there was a less than 2% gap between never-married women and men.

   In some instances, vested interests are choosing the statistics more favourable to their argument than not. For instance, in the UK, the EHRC figures are favoured over payslip differences because they show a bigger gap overall. (And note they are comparing the entire male vs the entire female work force, not like-for-like occupations). The EHRC claims he pay gap is 33% higher than what the Office for National Statistics data collected from payslips shows it as being.

   That's because the EHRC data are collected from the Labour Force Survey (LFS), which is amassed from a door-to-door sample of households. The information consists of individual responses – questionnaires based on interviewee’s recollections and not checked against available paperwork. It also suffers from the problem that because interviewers have to catch the residents at home in order to interview them, they are slightly less able to represent people in full time employment. (I know this because one of the interviewers came to my house last year – I was working from home so could talk to him, my husband was still at work and could not. It was about 4pm. I gave an estimate of my husband's income that was probably wrong.)

   I'm sure you've read Warren Farrell on this, but if not, do.

   Comment by Belle de Jour — November 22, 2011 @ 4:15 am

3. Protagoras: Nowhere do I claim that the more dangerous the job, the more is pays. People who do the most taxing physical labor tend to be paid poorly, such as farm workers. (But then there are jobs like being a private contractor mercenary that are high-risk, high-paying, and pretty much all-male.) That doesn't change the fact that sexism has nothing to do with wages.

   Belle: Yup, loves me some Warren Farrell.

   From all of my reading on the subject of "the wage gap," the miniscule real difference is due to the fact that men are more likely to ask for a raise or negotiate their salary upon being hired in the first place. I don't feel bad for people not getting raises because they don't bother to be assertive and ask for one, that's a personal failing, not The Patriarchy oppressing someone.

   There may also be a slight gap caused by women on the mommy track, too, but that's only "sexism" if you believe that women who have children deserve a free pass to miss tons of work without suffering a single cent of income loss. (Further in that vein, about parents of any gender, is a great book called The Baby Boon: How Family-Friendly America Cheats the Childless.)

   Comment by Furry Girl — November 22, 2011 @ 2:18 pm

4. I have an engineering degree and have worked at several different companies of various sizes over the last 20 years. I also spent a couple of years working as a computer programmer. Even though engineering and programming are traditionally male dominated industries, it was my experience that there were quite a few women in these careers and in positions of management. I never saw any examples of sexism and had several female bosses. While I know that personal experience doesn't always equate with the overall situation, the claim that women are paid less than men has always left me scratching my head. It just doesn't match my experience at all.

   Most of these companies were also incredibly diverse culturally and ethnically. The only discrimination I encountered was against free-thinkers, non-comformists, and mavericks. As long as you are willing to play the game, they don't seem to care what sex or ethnicity you are. I refused to play politics and was laid off by a Latino male and replaced by a Canadian female. (I'm a white male). Not that I'm bitter or anything - I received a nice severance package and have enjoyed a wonderfully long vacation.

   Comment by James S — November 22, 2011 @ 2:47 pm

5. Thanks for posting - I found this really interesting. With regards to working people who have kids, I've often wondered how much men's and women's pay would equal out if straight couples (only because I've not seen data on gay couples, co-habiting non-couples, etc.) equally shared childcare and housework (which, overwhelmingly, they don't). It's really interesting that everyone makes personal decisions within a relationship, i.e. there's no actual law or rule making women doing more housework or pick the kids up from school, yet studies show that they do end up doing it.

   Comment by Tulip — November 22, 2011 @ 3:08 pm

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