18 Comments

1. Thank you from a former male sex worker.

   I am sick of people trying to find "ways around" anti-sex working laws. Twenty+ years and 20#s ago, I made porn, and the rule was, if you had an audience or a camera in the room, it wasn't prostitution. Bull-pucky!

   Thank you for your work at SWAAY, I've been there since my days at SFSI. I'll buy a tee-shirt as soon as I get a few bucks ahead...it's funny, I'm 52 years old and still fighting the same old fights. Stupid laws, stupid wars, stupid "moral" rules. I would have sworn back then that we would have won by now.

   Comment by TJ — September 9, 2011 @ 6:36 pm

2. Hmm, let's try this:

   "Jury, please understand: it was not murder, it was human sacrifice?"

   Comment by NR — September 10, 2011 @ 3:04 am

3. According to Herodotus, sacred prostitution was probably among the earliest incarnations of prostitution historically. On the other hand, he has nothing but condemnation for the practice. And, on the other hand, it looked absolutely nothing like a brothel; all women in some region of Mesopotamia were supposedly compelled, once in their life, to go to the temple of whatever analog they had of Aphrodite and receive money in exchange for sex, at which point, the ritual being complete, they were free to leave. After this rite, they were expected to possess pure virtue, and receive no bribe great enough to compel them to prostitution.

   I didn't really have anything to argue; this post merely caught my attention. I have always been skeptical of Neopaganism; of course, I never realized any were using it as a ruse to create brothels. I mean, the essential facet of non-Abrahamic Polytheism is sacrifice; in particular, among the Western and Indo-European rituals it is animal sacrifice, really just a form of object-substitution for human sacrifice. Among Persian and Vedic texts it is clear that there is a belief in a perfect material equivalence of man and universe; as man derives nourishment from the universe in order to thrive and survive, so must the material of man be broken down into its composite parts (hair, bone, blood, etc) that allow the nourishment of the universe. According to Vedic paradigms, even metabolic digestion was considered a religious ritual, however incomplete, a ritual completed in the eventual death, by whatever means, of the individual. Alain Danielou wrote a lovely, though out of print, "Hindu Polytheism" which is a survey of the many paradigms and mythologies in Hinduism; this is mostly where I learned all this, myself.

   Comment by CntrlScrut — September 10, 2011 @ 6:17 am

4. I am a pagan myself, and do consider sex to be sacred. CntrlScrut, we are not all people who sacrifice animals. We are expected to give back to the world that gives us so much, but that usually means activism or volunteer work or parenting. As to the article, those women may view sex as sacred like me, but that is one thing that drives them TO prostitution, it doesn't make what they do NOT prostitution. It influences their choice, but does not make the name of the outcome any different. Let's just hope that in the future, both Pagan and secular prostitutes don't have authoritarian laws to deal with.

   Comment by Azura Rose — September 10, 2011 @ 9:31 am

5. You really missed the point. Without ritual, religion is merely faith. Non-Abrahamic polytheism depends upon sacrifice ritual as the essential ritual; you can't get through a reading of the "Anabasis," a military history, without reading a lot about burning slain animals and heavy drinking; so it is also with Homer's epics; the list goes on. My inference is that Neopaganism has nothing to do with, what shall I call it, "Archaeopaganism?" The bald and gross misunderstanding of ancient polytheistic ritual implies that there is truly nothing "Pagan" about Neopaganism; it is simply "New Religion." The fact that I have to use such a pejorative term as "paganism" in this discussion, is evidence enough of the contempt the modern world has for ancient polytheistic ritual, even in the minds of so-called "Neopagans." If they had anything but Abrahamic Monotheism's cultural contempt of polytheistic ritual, Neopagans would never term themselves "Pagans."

   Comment by CntrlScrut — September 10, 2011 @ 10:26 am

6. From Neil Gaiman's "American Gods":

   "My friend and I were disagreeing over what the word 'Easter' means. Would you happen to know?"
   The girl stared at him as if green toads had begun to push their way between his lips. Then she said "I don't know about any of that Christian stuff. I'm a pagan."
   The woman behind the counter said, "I think it's like Latin or something for 'Christ has risen,' maybe."
   "Really?" said Wednesday.
   "Yeah, sure," said the woman. "Easter. Just like the sun rises in the east, you know."
   "The risen son. Of course - a most logical supposition." [...] "And tell me, as a pagan, who do you worship?"
   "Worship?"
   "That's right. I imagine you must have a pretty wide-open field. So to whom do you set up your household altar? To whom do you bow down? To whom do you pray at dawn and at dusk?"
   Her lips described several shapes without saying anything before she said, "The female principle. It's an empowerment thing. You know?"
   "Indeed. And this female principle of yours. Does she have a name?"
   "She's the goddess within us all," said the girl with the eyebrow ring, color rising to her cheek. "She doesn't need a name."
   "Ah," said Wednesday, with a wide monkey grin, "so do you have mighty bacchanals in her honor? Do you drink blood wine under the full mood while scarlet candles burn in silver candleholders? Do you step naked into the seafoam, chanting ecstatically to your nameless goddess while the waves lick at your legs, lapping your thighs like the tongues of a thousand leopards?"
   "You're making fun of me," she said. "We don't do any of that stuff you were saying."
   [...] "There, " said Wednesday, "is one who 'does not have the faith and will not have the fun,' Chesterton. Pagan indeed. So, Shall we go out onto the street, Easter my dear, and repeat the exercise? Find out how many passersby know that their Easter festival takes its name from Eostre of the Dawn?"

   (...and etc. Forgive me any of my mistakes in typing this out)

   My aim in all this was simply to point out that many who claim to be "pagan" know nothing of what it is (or used to be) to be "pagan" (and this was a cute passage illustrating said point). Perhaps they should call it something else? Along those lines, I think it is much the same with feminism - it seems that the majority of those who call themselves feminists today are something else entirely (believing that women are victims and should hate all men for putting them down and so put men down in return, etc), and who would want to say they are a feminist when that is what it has become?

   ... thanks for listening to my rambling.

   Comment by miaow — September 10, 2011 @ 11:20 am

7. TJ: Thanks for the kind words. I agree with you about porn versus prostitution. I don't see any ethical or moral difference between porn and prostitution, and it is silly that the presence of a camera changes the way they are seen by the law. Overall, I have a serious loathing of sex workers who think they are superior to other sex workers, and the holier-than-thou "tantric healers" are just one facet of that mentality.

   Other folks: I realize that the origins of religions and how they work is an interesting topic, but I don't want the comments on this to turn into a debate about what "real" Paganism means. Okay?

   Comment by Furry Girl — September 10, 2011 @ 11:40 am

8. @7 Thank you Furry Girl. As a dominant cis-male, I have submitted myself to stupid "directors" of videos, who have really no idea about what BDSM is, for money.

   To be fair, I did one live show with some boys, when the female performer didn't show up, that was very profitable. It amazed me that I could walk amongst the tables and husbands would put big bucks in the tip jar, while their wives were sucking my cock. It's amazing how a few loads of cum on one's face influences people's "tip" responses.

   I share your loathing in the "I'm better than you" hierarchy of sex workers. I did porn. I fucked and sucked and beat and was beaten for money on camera, and at least twice not filmed. I was a whore, a prostitute, whatever. Yes, people have left money on the dresser for me, and I earned it. And the boys and girls who say, "I'm not a hooker, I'm an actor/actress" can kiss my ass.

   We fuck/suck for the bucks, and the camera/audience makes it "legal". Id rather it was just legal for me to go to someone's house and do the exact same things. I'd rather be able to walk up and down Market street with a sign; "Will blow you for $100"

   Comment by TJ — September 10, 2011 @ 10:15 pm

9. Huh. I thought people were jumping to publicize it because it seems more accessible to the general public than many prostitution cases. Also there's the element of, "see, sex work can be and is framed as sacred and valuable." I didn't get any hierarchy, but maybe I'm reading different blogs.

   Comment by Tara — September 10, 2011 @ 11:31 pm

10. While I get where your comming from, Iprefer to see it as a crack in the door. An explotable legal loophole which allows for an ever increasing wedge until one day there are so many exemptions and exception to the law that it is as hollow as a tree that has been devoured by termites

    Comment by lujlp — September 11, 2011 @ 1:32 am

11. Miaouw: Kudos on the Gaiman quote. My limited understanding of Neopaganism (I'm just a curious Jew, not in any way a Neopagan) is that some variants do have sexual rituals, but that's not really the same as offering sex for money--presumably why they have the whole "required donation" thing. All a bit silly, really. It will be interesting to see if there are any interesting legal consequences of this--if they do allow these pagan brothels to exist, would the prostitutes/Johns have to provide proof of membership in a coven or similar group, similarly to how peyote use is legal in the US if you're a member of the Native American Church.

    The tricky thing is, as far as I know, since the US government can't recognize any religion, technically speaking the only criteria for belonging to a religious group is saying that you belong to that religious group. Therefore, theoretically, this may actually lead to a loophole for these pagan brothels--you'd have to go on the word of the patrons/performers that they were pagans.

    Maybe you should create your own religion, FG, and have sex work be holy ritual. Can't beat'em, join'em? Just a thought.

    Comment by pratchettgaiman — September 15, 2011 @ 7:52 pm

12. I have worked in the "Pagan" sensual industry in the past. I am in utter agreement with (all) of the points you make in this article. I do appreciate the effort/endeavor to create working circumstances that are far more pleasant and safe for women in particular - as well as men. Yet overall, as you point out, laws (even if largely questionable as they are...and they so often are) should apply equitably to all. Per the latter rationale - why should the bail amount for Tracy Elise be so substantive...when it is far less for violent offenders? The law, once again, not applied equitably?

    Comment by JJ — September 18, 2011 @ 4:01 pm

13. Actually, religious exemptions from legal penalties have a long history in the United States - and abuse of those exemptions is rampant. (Mostly Christian) religious organizations and speakers enjoy tax-exempt status even when it is blatantly obvious their "not for profit" organization is very much profiting them. On the less sensational (and probably less abused) side, controlled substances like alcohol and mescaline typically get a bye when used in religious rituals. So the pagan-themed sex workers are actually using a tried and true legal defense in claiming religious practice.

    That said, I agree this *should not* be the case. The issue here shouldn't be "is it prostitution or religious ritual?" It should be "Why is the government throwing fits about consenting adults using their own bodies as they see fit with no harm to anyone just because they are doing it for profit?" The only rational concern the government should have there is whether the taxes are being paid.

    Comment by Lodrelhai — September 21, 2011 @ 5:38 am

14. I agree that people should not be in different moral categories based on their religious fantasies, and of course we can't be free if we are not allowed to be prostitutes (or are denied bodily sovereignty in any other way).

    In most cases a Tantric massage isn't a whole lot different than being just a hand job. For many clients they don't want much more than this, but plenty do. There is far more to Tantric sex than some candles, in fact there is a lot of literature on the subject, some of it written by PhDs.

    With the intent and when done by a skilled practitioner using various techniques, one can indeed enter into an expanded world of sexual experiences and deep bodily connection. Some people choose to call these religious experiences. The work is therefore spiritual for these people.

    I've been engaged in the tantric sex scene for over 2 years now, and I've learnt and grown a lot, sexually and I believe spiritually.

    While I think your criticism is harsh, I agree with the principles you set forth.

    Comment by John — September 22, 2011 @ 4:14 pm

15. Well I would like to comment because you think you have the right to
    lump Sacred Sexual Healing with Sex Workers who do things very differently.
    Someone who has spent months training in the practice of sacred
    sexuality and sexual healing is a very different bird shall we say

    Please understand sex work and sacred sexual healing are very different and yes there is very deep healing going on .
    You obviously have never experienced anything remotely close to sacred sexual healing or you wouldn't be so callus about associating this practice with being a prostitute with out this training which it seems has been done here.
    We all take our life work and place in society as important.
    I respect your opinion as much as possible . You are very misinformed however.

    The tantra community is world wide , whose purpose to heal the hearts of those who seek the knowledge and teach ancient practice found in cultures around the world .
    There is not a country in the world where Sacred Sexuality is not
    practiced. In most places it is a very basic part of society.

    In the USA There are practitioners in every state practically quietly extending this knowledge to whom ever asks .
    The vision to teach people here, the ancient rites and rituals,
    to heal your heart and understand that intimate union can bring
    you closer to your source of higher power and God how ever you see
    that.

    This is an invitation to all who read this post to look deeper into this ancient art, and understand it better. Before you judge
    or lump it together with other types of sexual interactions.

    Comment by Bambi — September 22, 2011 @ 4:25 pm

16. Pratchettgaiman: I'm not sure what I was unclear about, but I'll say it again: I don't believe in any special treatment or special rights for any religious group. Starting to my own religion because I want to commit crimes does not compute.

    JJ: I have no opinion on the bail amount for the alleged madam of the Phoenix "Temple." Bails should be affordable, but nonviolent protesters get huge bail amounts all the time, so it's not like this is a special rare case of a nonviolent arrestee getting singled out.

    Lodrelhai: Just because an injustice has existed before, it doesn't make it okay. Giving certain religious groups special legal rights does happen, but I am opposed to it whenever it does. (Such as religious people who let their small children die of curable illnesses because god would apparentlywant it that way. Those scumbags are some of the few for whom I'd support the death penalty.)

    John writes, "There is far more to Tantric sex than some candles." There can be. But come on, you're talking to a Seattle sex worker here. I know very well that *TONS* of brothels and jack shacks in this country pretend to be "sacred healing centers" in a failed effort to avoid prosecution. (I am not aware of *ANY* of these businesses *EVER* actually winning in court on that argument, but plenty of people think it will, like the myth that if you ask someone if they're a cop, they have to tell you the truth.) I fully support sex work and sex businesses, but let's not pretend that when these places get busted, that it has anything to do with religious freedom. It has to do with a shitty legal strategy that any lawyer worth their salt would have advised them against trying.

    Bambi: You are confused as to what the word "right" means. Maybe you're posting from Cuba, but in this country, I actually *do* have the right to write my own opinions on my own blog. And yes, I find you people absolutely hilarious. Have fun with the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus and whatnot!

    Comment by Furry Girl — September 24, 2011 @ 2:40 pm

17. @Furry Girl: my last line was a joke, I'm sorry if I sounded serious.

    Comment by pratchettgaiman — September 30, 2011 @ 4:33 pm

18. • Size Matters « The Honest Courtesan

    Comment by Trackbacks — May 22, 2013 @ 4:59 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.