Comments on: Why is internet porn the unloved stepchild of the indie porn world - locked in the attic and not included in family portraits? http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/ I'm an atheist who has been a full time pornographer and sex worker for almost 10 years. I'm also a former "sex-positive feminist" who tired of trying to shoehorn my life into a useless ideology like a pair of ill-fitting high heels. I oppose the feminist doctrine that women are inherently feeble victims, brainwashed by "the patriarchy," and in need of someone to protect and guide us. I operate SWAAY.org, the only American sex workers' rights project aimed solely at public outreach and education. My politics are extremely socially permissive, but mixed on fiscal matters, and I don't identify with any one political party or label. My philosophy is informed primarily by Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse: "I want you to be nice until it's time to not be nice." Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:54:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Furry Girl http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-1657 Furry Girl Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:46:27 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-1657 Lilly: I think you're confusing things. Unless a site has DRM (google the term/issue if you're unfamiliar), customers do not have to pay a continuing monthly fee to see website material. People who join my sites are free to download and keep everything. (Some porn sites do use DRM, though, but I think it's more a thing that already-huge companies do, not something independent sites either want to bother with technically, or agree with doing in the first place.) Further, a site membership is a massively better deal for the customer than buying snippets, so I don't know why you think membership sites don't provide people "their money's worth". I know a low of people who sell pay-per-view clips taken directly from their member's area, and they repeatedly report that they're surprised someone would pay $8 to watch one video, when they could watch hundreds of videos in their member's area for a $20 subscription. Lilly: I think you're confusing things. Unless a site has DRM (google the term/issue if you're unfamiliar), customers do not have to pay a continuing monthly fee to see website material. People who join my sites are free to download and keep everything. (Some porn sites do use DRM, though, but I think it's more a thing that already-huge companies do, not something independent sites either want to bother with technically, or agree with doing in the first place.) Further, a site membership is a massively better deal for the customer than buying snippets, so I don't know why you think membership sites don't provide people "their money's worth". I know a low of people who sell pay-per-view clips taken directly from their member's area, and they repeatedly report that they're surprised someone would pay $8 to watch one video, when they could watch hundreds of videos in their member's area for a $20 subscription.

]]> By: lilly http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-1578 lilly Mon, 07 Jun 2010 03:41:27 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-1578 It's because people want something they can keep. Downloads are really just as good as DVDs when it comes down to digital rights. The problem with subscriptions is that you have to keep paying money (at least on most sites) to view the content. Consumers have overwhelmingly chosen a digital model in other markets (i.e. music) where you pay for the item one time and can then use it as much as you like. I've seen lots of porn producers trend towards this, and I hope that the indie porn industry follows suit. While many small-time porn consumers would not pay for a subscription because they won't get their money's worth, they would pay a few dollars for a smaller snippet (as in the itunes model). It's because people want something they can keep. Downloads are really just as good as DVDs when it comes down to digital rights. The problem with subscriptions is that you have to keep paying money (at least on most sites) to view the content. Consumers have overwhelmingly chosen a digital model in other markets (i.e. music) where you pay for the item one time and can then use it as much as you like. I've seen lots of porn producers trend towards this, and I hope that the indie porn industry follows suit. While many small-time porn consumers would not pay for a subscription because they won't get their money's worth, they would pay a few dollars for a smaller snippet (as in the itunes model).

]]> By: Renard DellaFave http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-872 Renard DellaFave Tue, 06 Apr 2010 17:00:25 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-872 I heard a similar bias on a Playboy Radio show (Afternoon Advice Ithink) talking about piracy and making comments that lumped together web/pirated or DVD as categories, and saying that web porn is short (just sex scenes), "grainy", and impermanent. I dunno, if you back up your data I'd say files could be more permanent. I question the value of HD for anything, though I know it is popular, and plotless porn is frankly a great time saver depending what you're looking for. I assume it was a bias from the larger DVD based companies the hosts worked for, but sounded kind of odd for 20-somethings to be talking about a "physical product in your hand" as being preferable. It's a new age for all types of media, and I sure don't miss the older distribution systems, especially for porn. Better they would have talked about how to find good web-based indie material. (Jane's List?) I heard a similar bias on a Playboy Radio show (Afternoon Advice Ithink) talking about piracy and making comments that lumped together web/pirated or DVD as categories, and saying that web porn is short (just sex scenes), "grainy", and impermanent. I dunno, if you back up your data I'd say files could be more permanent. I question the value of HD for anything, though I know it is popular, and plotless porn is frankly a great time saver depending what you're looking for. I assume it was a bias from the larger DVD based companies the hosts worked for, but sounded kind of odd for 20-somethings to be talking about a "physical product in your hand" as being preferable. It's a new age for all types of media, and I sure don't miss the older distribution systems, especially for porn. Better they would have talked about how to find good web-based indie material. (Jane's List?)

]]> By: Bookmarks for March 19th | Eros Daily Musings and Digressions http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-819 Bookmarks for March 19th | Eros Daily Musings and Digressions Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:40:31 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-819 [...] Why is internet porn the unloved stepchild of the indie porn world | Furry Girl – My annoyance and confusion comes from wondering why talking about "good porn" means talking about who makes good porn that is available as a feature-length physical DVD. [...] [...] Why is internet porn the unloved stepchild of the indie porn world | Furry Girl – My annoyance and confusion comes from wondering why talking about "good porn" means talking about who makes good porn that is available as a feature-length physical DVD. [...]

]]> By: Bookmarks for March 19th | Viviane's Sex Carnival http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-818 Bookmarks for March 19th | Viviane's Sex Carnival Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:01:14 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-818 [...] Why is internet porn the unloved stepchild of the indie porn world | Furry Girl – My annoyance and confusion comes from wondering why talking about "good porn" means talking about who makes good porn that is available as a feature-length physical DVD. [...] [...] Why is internet porn the unloved stepchild of the indie porn world | Furry Girl – My annoyance and confusion comes from wondering why talking about "good porn" means talking about who makes good porn that is available as a feature-length physical DVD. [...]

]]> By: Iamcuriousblue http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-815 Iamcuriousblue Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:28:18 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-815 Well, the porn genre I'm a fan of is "New Wave of Lesbian Erotica" (google it) rather than "feminist porn", and that genre is an even mix of DVD producers and web video producers. And much of the best of it has long been on web video, with DVD having no particular advantage as far as the quality of the movie goes. In fact, one big advantage of web video is that much of it has been in HD resolution for several years now. Whereas very little hard-copy porn is on Blu-Ray. The trend is clearly toward web content. Abby Winters is a good example of a company that does both DVD and web videos, with the bulk of their content being in the latter format. Companies like Viv Thomas and Girlfriends films remain DVD-centered, but increasingly are making DVD titles purchasable by direct download. Others like Little Mutt abandoned DVD years ago and have entirely gone over to web video. My preference is definitely high-rez web video. If I really want a DVD for some reason, I can always burn one. DVD might have some advantage if they came with tons of special features the way some mainstream DVDs do, but you rarely see that in porn. As far as piracy goes, both web content and DVDs get hit, and if anything, web content is pirated more easily because one doesn't even have to bother to covert format. But companies on both ends are suffering because of piracy, in any event. As for Sinclair Sexsmith's original post that touched this off, I haven't seen this, but it touches a pet peeve of mine I've been seeing a lot of recently. It seems a lot of sex-positive feminists have semi-caught the anti-porn bug from radical feminists and are taking an increasingly proscriptive stance toward men watching so-called "mainstream porn". I think there's actually a lot of good stuff in the so-called "mainstream porn" world (though that's really a nebulous term and could mean a lot of things), counted you weed through the crap, but too many feminists are more interested in blanket condemnation of it than critical engagement. Well, the porn genre I'm a fan of is "New Wave of Lesbian Erotica" (google it) rather than "feminist porn", and that genre is an even mix of DVD producers and web video producers. And much of the best of it has long been on web video, with DVD having no particular advantage as far as the quality of the movie goes. In fact, one big advantage of web video is that much of it has been in HD resolution for several years now. Whereas very little hard-copy porn is on Blu-Ray.

The trend is clearly toward web content. Abby Winters is a good example of a company that does both DVD and web videos, with the bulk of their content being in the latter format. Companies like Viv Thomas and Girlfriends films remain DVD-centered, but increasingly are making DVD titles purchasable by direct download. Others like Little Mutt abandoned DVD years ago and have entirely gone over to web video. My preference is definitely high-rez web video. If I really want a DVD for some reason, I can always burn one. DVD might have some advantage if they came with tons of special features the way some mainstream DVDs do, but you rarely see that in porn.

As far as piracy goes, both web content and DVDs get hit, and if anything, web content is pirated more easily because one doesn't even have to bother to covert format. But companies on both ends are suffering because of piracy, in any event.

As for Sinclair Sexsmith's original post that touched this off, I haven't seen this, but it touches a pet peeve of mine I've been seeing a lot of recently. It seems a lot of sex-positive feminists have semi-caught the anti-porn bug from radical feminists and are taking an increasingly proscriptive stance toward men watching so-called "mainstream porn". I think there's actually a lot of good stuff in the so-called "mainstream porn" world (though that's really a nebulous term and could mean a lot of things), counted you weed through the crap, but too many feminists are more interested in blanket condemnation of it than critical engagement.

]]> By: JIm http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-812 JIm Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:09:16 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-812 Quality, non plastic airbrushed & artificial hot indie porn only seems easy to find once a person has hooked up with the network of producers - which I think does not happen for a lot of people; they are inhibited by the need to become familiar with a new distribution channel, new sources of product. Perhaps time and networking will help the potential consumer to overcome this inhibition. It does not help, probably, that - oddly enough - we may feel more anonymous going into a physical product store and paying cash, or even by CC, than purchasing membership in a site on the internet. The latter seems more "visible", due to the permanence and insecurity of internet transactions, and more permanent than dropping in to a local porn shop. The industry is in need of a very transparent, highly secure and trusted payment system which combines age check and micro-payment capabilities with CC payment capabilities, and is dedicated to and not divertable from service to the porn/erotica consumer. Quality, non plastic airbrushed & artificial hot indie porn only seems easy to find once a person has hooked up with the network of producers - which I think does not happen for a lot of people; they are inhibited by the need to become familiar with a new distribution channel, new sources of product. Perhaps time and networking will help the potential consumer to overcome this inhibition.

It does not help, probably, that - oddly enough - we may feel more anonymous going into a physical product store and paying cash, or even by CC, than purchasing membership in a site on the internet. The latter seems more "visible", due to the permanence and insecurity of internet transactions, and more permanent than dropping in to a local porn shop.

The industry is in need of a very transparent, highly secure and trusted payment system which combines age check and micro-payment capabilities with CC payment capabilities, and is dedicated to and not divertable from service to the porn/erotica consumer.

]]> By: kitty http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-809 kitty Sat, 20 Mar 2010 12:31:18 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-809 Could it be a merging of information overload and the stereotypical view of the internet as a distributor for "traditional" porn? I remember my own journey seeking out porn that I could enjoy - free from the plastic nature of mainstream porn but still full of hotness- and the research took hours. Fortunately you guys have extensive link lists, so once I found Tasty Trixie, the rest was easy. The irony is that those who are looking for recommendations for thoughtful, people-friendly porn are seeking immediate answers (otherwise they wouldn't be asking on the internet in the first place) but the results they've been given reinforce the old, patience-is-required method of experiencing media. Maybe if all parties involved applied the same discipline to thoroughly searching and wading through myriad porn sites as they do in waiting for a package to arrive or a file to download, they would find exactly what it is they're looking for with much greater efficiency. Could it be a merging of information overload and the stereotypical view of the internet as a distributor for "traditional" porn? I remember my own journey seeking out porn that I could enjoy - free from the plastic nature of mainstream porn but still full of hotness- and the research took hours. Fortunately you guys have extensive link lists, so once I found Tasty Trixie, the rest was easy.

The irony is that those who are looking for recommendations for thoughtful, people-friendly porn are seeking immediate answers (otherwise they wouldn't be asking on the internet in the first place) but the results they've been given reinforce the old, patience-is-required method of experiencing media. Maybe if all parties involved applied the same discipline to thoroughly searching and wading through myriad porn sites as they do in waiting for a package to arrive or a file to download, they would find exactly what it is they're looking for with much greater efficiency.

]]> By: Nio http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-806 Nio Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:39:02 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-806 Hmmm, I don't do this myself but maybe it's just a certain sort of snobbery? When film first came out, people did not believe that film could be "art". Same with photography. Perhaps, due to the relative newness of internet porn and because of the fact that -anybody- can make internet porn, there's a sort of elitist notion about the superiority of having the equipment and abilities to make a DVD? Iono, I'm kind of talking out my arse here! Hmmm, I don't do this myself but maybe it's just a certain sort of snobbery? When film first came out, people did not believe that film could be "art". Same with photography. Perhaps, due to the relative newness of internet porn and because of the fact that -anybody- can make internet porn, there's a sort of elitist notion about the superiority of having the equipment and abilities to make a DVD?

Iono, I'm kind of talking out my arse here!

]]> By: Cand86 http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/why-is-internet-porn-the-unloved-stepchild-of-the-indie-porn-world-locked-in-the-attic-and-not-included-in-family-portraits/#comment-805 Cand86 Sat, 20 Mar 2010 00:38:37 +0000 http://www.feminisnt.com/?p=1099#comment-805 Maybe it has something to do with the idea of legitimacy and permanence- there's something about a DVD, a physical, tangible product, that is reassuring in knowing that you have it, and no computer crash is going to get rid of it (and that's only if the website had downloadable media, versus streaming-only). Unlikely as it is, websites do disappear (Ssspread.com, for example), whereas a DVD is supposedly forever. And, as silly as it is, I do think people still see DVD's as the sort of mark that someone has "made it"; it makes it seem as though you have produced something worthwhile enough to get it 'released' (even though that may not be the case, and, as you point out, you could have just burned it yourself to a disc!). It's illogical, given that I *hate* the pitfalls of DVD porn (having to store it, get it out, rather than just click a folder on the desktop), but I still feel kind of proud of my DVD collection of queer indie porn, in a way I wouldn't if it was only on the web or my hard drive. Maybe it has something to do with the idea of legitimacy and permanence- there's something about a DVD, a physical, tangible product, that is reassuring in knowing that you have it, and no computer crash is going to get rid of it (and that's only if the website had downloadable media, versus streaming-only). Unlikely as it is, websites do disappear (Ssspread.com, for example), whereas a DVD is supposedly forever. And, as silly as it is, I do think people still see DVD's as the sort of mark that someone has "made it"; it makes it seem as though you have produced something worthwhile enough to get it 'released' (even though that may not be the case, and, as you point out, you could have just burned it yourself to a disc!).

It's illogical, given that I *hate* the pitfalls of DVD porn (having to store it, get it out, rather than just click a folder on the desktop), but I still feel kind of proud of my DVD collection of queer indie porn, in a way I wouldn't if it was only on the web or my hard drive.

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