Somewhat disjointed grievances on porno pay rates, transparency, and a pinch of boring labor politics

by Furry Girl

09.24.09

I've always worked hard to operate an ethical adult business.  I'm not claiming to be perfect, but I do my best.  Which, of course, is why it's so awesome that countless people yell at me for exploiting women, causing children to be raped, destroying relationships, and generally being responsible for a hateful, sexist world full of misery, degradation, and imperfectly-decorated cupcakes.  Today, I've been thinking a lot about the ethics of how models are be paid and the general lack of openness about how pay rates are determined.

I'm considering starting a fourth porn site.  It could take some time for me to earn back my investment if the economy keeps on tanking, so I need to be a good perverted entrepreneur and nail down a figure for the initial outlay before going any further with the project.

I'm a small business, and I currently pay models $100 each per photo set, regardless of whether they are posing nude or having sex.  I prefer to let models choose the level of overt/graphic sexuality they want to display.  For me, it seems the fairest to pay everyone for their time, rather than for specific acts or penetrated orifices.

I'm curious what other small porn companies are paying these days, so I sent an email out to a lot of industry friends asking about pay rates.  One of the responses was that I should be paying more for well-known performers.  While I appreciate my porno comrade's work and her opinion on the matter, the idea of paying some people more than others really makes me bristle, even though I know it's not uncommon.  I've always aimed to be as egalitarian as possible in both my work and personal life, and I will not start paying models different rates based on how well-known they are within a given niche.

It would be an absolute nightmare to try and guess how famous each model is and pay them based on my perception.  How does one determine fame?  Is a certain performer famous enough that I should pay her $300 for a photo set, or $350?  What about someone who's at the top of the foot fetish scene, but a total unknown in the pissing scene?  Is she $200 worth of famous, or $400?

And, "famous" to whom, exactly?  Syd Blakovich is an amazing queer porn star, but when she was at the AVN awards with Madison Young, pretty much no one at the mainstream event had any idea who she was.  On the flip side, I can't name a single Vivid contract girl, so they're not "famous" in my own bubble.  I can't think of a more confusing and unfair way to determine a worker's pay than "fame".

Apart from what I view as unfairness, it seems like a recipe for disaster and potential hurt feelings if my models found out what each of them were being paid and disagreed with my personal assessment of which of them was worth the most.  Transparency has always been a major value to me, whether as a business owner or navigator of my open relationships.

When surfing the alt/indie/queer/artsy porn I mainly enjoy, I usually click over to model pages to see how other businesses go about their recruiting and what they pay.  When I see a company mention nothing about payment, it makes me think one of two things: they pay based on arbitrary/subjective standards like "fame" or "hotness", or they're trying to discourage interest from models for whom getting paid for their work is a top concern.

I'd like to call out my sister/fellow pornographers and ask why so few small porn companies publish their payment rates on their model recruitment pages.  What's the argument for not making it easy for talent to see how much money they would make if they work with you?  If you choose to pay according to more vague standards like fame or hotness, why not be open about that, too, and note something like "$100-300 an hour, at our discretion"?

Over the years, I've seen some alt/indie/queer/artsy pornographers make statements about how they want their models to be in it for the self-expression more than the money, or even that models need to prove themselves with free/low-paying work before getting more or better-paid work.

While I, too, aim to produce porn with models who love what they're doing, I'm not going to pretend that they are completely indifferent to being compensated for their time and sexual energy.  I've seen this from alt/indie/queer/artsy adult companies - the whole "the models should provide my company with free/cheap labor to show how liberated they are" thing - but I've never seen a Horrible Mainstream Porn Company do this.  Feminists throw around complaints about "the Playboy body ideal", but I bet you Playboy doesn't try to make their models think they should just be in it to empower and express themselves.

I will always take issue with the fact that most criticism of the adult industry is about the supposed evils of sexualizing women's sexual parts, and not about boring labor issues like workers being treated well by management or compensated fairly.

Is it too much to dream of a day where discussion about the politics and ethics around sex work is not confined to moralistic fluff issues juxtaposed with imagery of women undulating in darkened rooms?

And is it too much to hope for that we independent and sex-positive porn companies could be among the most transparent in the adult industry about how much we pay our workers?





14 Comments

  1. IMO, your rates are fair. Realistically, if you're up front about your rates, models don't really have any right to complain. Either they're willing to work for that much, or they're not.

    I agree that judging based on fame is absurd, especially in the adult industry where there are so many differing degrees of fame. After all, having achieved fame in "mainstream" hardcore doesn't necessarily make you any more desirable of an asset in the alt scene, it could even work against you. Anyway, keep doing what you're doing, the adult community could learn a lot from you.

    Comment by Eliza E — September 24, 2009 @ 11:11 pm

  2. Thanks for your comment, Eliza.

    I realize I don't pay the most in the adult industry, but VegPorn.com and EroticRed.com also don't make much money. They're niche sites that I run because I care about them, not because I think they'll make me rich.

    Also, if I pay $100 for something that Kink.com pays $500 for, I'm still paying out a greater percentage of my web site's sales, so I don't feel like I'm ripping anyone off. I think that's another issue people don't take into account- the overall ratios of what a small company pays versus what a large company pays, compared to their profits.

    Comment by Furry Girl — September 24, 2009 @ 11:17 pm

  3. I think you're on to some valid points and concerns. I think you hit the nail on the head when you brought up Playboy's pay scale. When the revenue for any product is substantial, there will be greater pressure for fair relations between employees and management. This happens whether we're talking about pictures of fucking or matching dinette sets.

    There are a lot of industries where the owner of a business is under no pressure to be direct or honest with the employees (restaurants, nightclubs, bars, small businesses of all sorts...). It seems like you will run into the same arguments about the topic that are steeped in the details of Adult. That is the language and topic of your daily workplace.

    The issues you describe, sound to me (and I'm no expert) like those of a small business owner in an industry that has unregulated employee standards. No unions, no state or federal regulations, no public advocacy calls for standard compensation.

    You're a small business owner and it will fall onto your shoulders to navigate your way through all of that. Hopefully with your integrity intact.

    -arvan

    Comment by sexgenderbody — September 25, 2009 @ 11:25 am

  4. "When the revenue for any product is substantial, there will be greater pressure for fair relations between employees and management. This happens whether we're talking about pictures of fucking or matching dinette sets."

    Huh, I don't see how you reached that conclusion. Walmart, McDonalds, any industrial agriculture company, any company that makes a lot of money, really, tends to have a lot of money precisely because they pay workers very poorly and offer little/no benefits, and use sweatshop labor or employ migrant workers for a fraction of the country's minimum wage. To be overly broad, the more financially successful a company is, the less it probably pays workers and the more likely they are to engage in exploitative labor practices.

    Which, of course, if why I like being a small business, and prefer stocking products in my store from other small businesses, rather than just carrying the "natural lube" from XYZ Mega China Corp.

    Comment by Furry Girl — September 25, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

  5. The way I reached the conclusion is simply this - if there is enough money in a group of employees for either a union lawyers or employment advocacy lawyers to argue their case, then those cases will be argued.

    McDonalds, Wal-mart and tons of others pay their lawyers huge sums of money to beat back those legal challenges and to fix the laws in state and federal governments. I made no mention of any guaranteed success. Some large industries are very good at screwing employees. They spend good money to continue to do so - and it's still a savings over paying their employees better.

    However, some industries have had success getting the attention of OSHA or a union or an advocate of some sort to alter the relationship with their employer. There are no guarantees there, either.

    You seem to be pretty reasonable, decent and forthright with your terms and employees. Some will like it and some won't, but it really won't be because you did something wrong. Who knows? Maybe you'll end up making a huge, positive impact in labor relations in the Adult industry.

    btw...great post - as always.

    -arvan

    Comment by sexgenderbody — September 25, 2009 @ 2:02 pm

  6. I think two things are important the pay issue. Atmosphere and hindsight. When my girlfriend started mainstream porn she could get up to $900 for a fuck scene but they aren't sites she would readily direct people to. She had to work outside the United States to get into an atmosphere where she was proud of her work.
    Are prices high in mainstream porn as a lame effort to compensate what you will feel later, or just bait?
    My bet is that more people would want to make porn a part of their life experimental experience or profession and happy with a couple hundred dollars if the production wasn't focused on you looking like a idiot/bimbo and more towards a sensual creation.

    Comment by Hawk — September 26, 2009 @ 4:48 pm

  7. We're doing a lot of shooting for trade. The economy has been tough for everyone and a lot of women are interested in trade because they know how to sell their own content. I am so very happy to come up with barter and trade arrangements because I know we're all struggling and working out hot asses off.

    When we have hired more well known models they have always been happy to work for our (very reasonable) rates because they aren't divas and they like to work. And realistically there are huge regional differences in sex work wages. The labor is no different, but I'm only going to make small change at the titty bar in some dusty small town while I would make $$$$ in Las Vegas for the same thing. We can't pay what Vivid is paying and they understand that. We're also not doing the same things and we aren't expecting them to douche, enema, and put in 8 hours on a shoot.

    I think one of the big issues about money and sex work is when people are doing it just for the money. But then a big issue with any sort of labor is when people are doing it just for the money. If I take any square job because I just really need the money I'm going to be miserable and feel exploited because I'm doing it out of desperation. I guess that being nude and in sexual situations makes people feel more vulnerable so it seems like more of a problem than being exploited by sprawl-mart.

    Comment by Roxxie — September 26, 2009 @ 8:06 pm

  8. Wait--you mean you're the one responsible for imperfectly frosted cupcakes?

    Comment by John Seavey — March 9, 2010 @ 6:30 am

  9. Labor relations should always be good to ensure the success of a company.,..

    Comment by Grace Brown — July 8, 2010 @ 11:12 pm

  10. From what I have seen, there's a huge influx of people that are getting into this niche. With more models available, it drives pricing down.

    Furry Girl, if you're able to get the quality of models you want at $100 per shoot, then more power to you. Optimize that dollar. I'm willing to bet you could place an ad in a number of places for $50 and you'd still get a decent return.

    I'm further willing to bet you could buy 10 Fleshlights (or similar 'toys') at discount, post an add that you're looking for 10 individuals to shoot using the item and the compensation would be the toy itself (they take it with them) and you would still get a large response. I've actually seen this work in lieu of payment, and everybody was happy.

    Comment by Cleanse — August 8, 2010 @ 4:39 pm

  11. Comment by Trackbacks — May 18, 2013 @ 5:44 pm

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